I'd be curious for your baseball HOF thoughts given the announcement of Baines and Smith this Sunday.
Personally, I'd eternally respect any sport that announced just once that they determined no one merited being elected to their HOF that given year. There are 323 members of the MLB HOF. I don't think I could name 323 players (past or current) if my life depended on it.
I'd be curious for your baseball HOF thoughts given the announcement of Baines and Smith this Sunday.
Great topic. I saw Harold Baines all the way back in 1977 when he was first drafted and played for the Appleton Foxes. Baines was fresh out of high school and he was a great guy – he enjoyed talking to the fans and you could tell he was going to be a special player. That same summer a certain phenom for Burlington (IA) came through town for some games against the Foxes, a kid named Molitor. I rooted for Harold Baines throughout his long and distinguished career. And you know what? He is the worst HOF pick in many, many years. A quintessential “Hall of the Very Good” guy. Of the guys under consideration, I would have taken Will Clark, Joe Carter, and even the odious Albert Belle before I’d have taken Baines. Lee Smith is borderline, too, but he’s more defensible. I usually do a HOF post around this time of year and I’ll probably get to that soon. The one way the Baines selection may help? If we’re going to have a career DH in the HOF, it now makes the candidacy of Edgar Martinez (a far superior player) more plausible.
I saw Baines a lot during my scoreboard career at the Dome; he was a guy you definitely didn't want to see coming to the plate in crucial situations (if you weren't a White Sox fan, that is). A nice guy, too, by all accounts, and a "pro's pro". I didn't think he'd be in the HOF; perhaps having Reinsdorf on the Committee had something to do with it. Which speaks well for Frank Thomas's chances.
I suppose this opens the door a bit more for career DHs, like Martinez, and you have Big Papi coming up soon. Ortiz, though, will likely kick down any door that's closed, partially open, or padlocked.
I didn't think he'd be in the HOF; perhaps having Reinsdorf on the Committee had something to do with it. Which speaks well for Frank Thomas's chances.
For the record, Frank Thomas has been in the HOF since 2014. But Jerry Reinsdorf’s role speaks to the larger issue; in particular, in the 1970s the Veteran’s Committee was letting in people who had no business being in the HOF; the most egregious example is a guy named George “High Pockets” Kelly, who got in back in 1973 because he was buddies with Bill Terry and Frankie Frisch, HOFers on the committee. Bill James has written extensively about this guy; he noted that Kelly’s overall numbers are similar to Bob Watson, who I’m sure you remember and wouldn’t consider a HOFer. Beyond that, in James’s view, Watson was actually a better player because he spent much of his career in the Astrodome, a hitting graveyard.
I think Big Papi is a lock, but they may make him wait a year or two because he did fail a drug test in ’03.
I'm not sure if you've commented on it before, D, but do you think Joe Mauer is HOF bound some day?
There are only 18 catchers in the HOF, although Piazza and Rodriguez made it in 2016 and 2017.
Mauer's batting average is nearly the same as Piazza's (.308 to .306) with Pudge at only .296. But both of them have far more home runs and better stats over a longer period of time. I think if Mauer gets in he's the MLB equivalent of Terrell Davis, the Broncos' briefly amazing RB - a dominating player with a short career (in terms of playing excellence, in Mauer's case).
I'm surprised to see such a diverse set of opinions elsewhere on Mauer, ranging from sure-fire HOFer to a "no-way, no-how" sort of reaction.
The question with Mauer is this – how do you view his career as a fielder? If you look at him primarily as a catcher, he is HOF for sure. But he was a first baseman for the last five years of his career and was more like Wally Joyner or Mark Grace during those years. On balance, yes, he’s a Hall of Famer. But it’s not as clear-cut as it could be. The one thing worth remembering is he’s hardly the only catcher who ended up playing a different position at the end of his career. People who aren’t baseball obsessives generally don’t realize Yogi Berra was the Yankees leftfielder in 1961.
8 comments:
I'd be curious for your baseball HOF thoughts given the announcement of Baines and Smith this Sunday.
Personally, I'd eternally respect any sport that announced just once that they determined no one merited being elected to their HOF that given year. There are 323 members of the MLB HOF. I don't think I could name 323 players (past or current) if my life depended on it.
I'd be curious for your baseball HOF thoughts given the announcement of Baines and Smith this Sunday.
Great topic. I saw Harold Baines all the way back in 1977 when he was first drafted and played for the Appleton Foxes. Baines was fresh out of high school and he was a great guy – he enjoyed talking to the fans and you could tell he was going to be a special player. That same summer a certain phenom for Burlington (IA) came through town for some games against the Foxes, a kid named Molitor. I rooted for Harold Baines throughout his long and distinguished career. And you know what? He is the worst HOF pick in many, many years. A quintessential “Hall of the Very Good” guy. Of the guys under consideration, I would have taken Will Clark, Joe Carter, and even the odious Albert Belle before I’d have taken Baines. Lee Smith is borderline, too, but he’s more defensible. I usually do a HOF post around this time of year and I’ll probably get to that soon. The one way the Baines selection may help? If we’re going to have a career DH in the HOF, it now makes the candidacy of Edgar Martinez (a far superior player) more plausible.
On second thought, maybe not Joe Carter, but Clark and Belle are both more deserving than Baines.
I saw Baines a lot during my scoreboard career at the Dome; he was a guy you definitely didn't want to see coming to the plate in crucial situations (if you weren't a White Sox fan, that is). A nice guy, too, by all accounts, and a "pro's pro". I didn't think he'd be in the HOF; perhaps having Reinsdorf on the Committee had something to do with it. Which speaks well for Frank Thomas's chances.
I suppose this opens the door a bit more for career DHs, like Martinez, and you have Big Papi coming up soon. Ortiz, though, will likely kick down any door that's closed, partially open, or padlocked.
perhaps having Reinsdorf on the Committee had something to do with it. Which speaks well for Frank Thomas's chances.
Thomas was inducted in 2014.
I didn't think he'd be in the HOF; perhaps having Reinsdorf on the Committee had something to do with it. Which speaks well for Frank Thomas's chances.
For the record, Frank Thomas has been in the HOF since 2014. But Jerry Reinsdorf’s role speaks to the larger issue; in particular, in the 1970s the Veteran’s Committee was letting in people who had no business being in the HOF; the most egregious example is a guy named George “High Pockets” Kelly, who got in back in 1973 because he was buddies with Bill Terry and Frankie Frisch, HOFers on the committee. Bill James has written extensively about this guy; he noted that Kelly’s overall numbers are similar to Bob Watson, who I’m sure you remember and wouldn’t consider a HOFer. Beyond that, in James’s view, Watson was actually a better player because he spent much of his career in the Astrodome, a hitting graveyard.
I think Big Papi is a lock, but they may make him wait a year or two because he did fail a drug test in ’03.
I'm not sure if you've commented on it before, D, but do you think Joe Mauer is HOF bound some day?
There are only 18 catchers in the HOF, although Piazza and Rodriguez made it in 2016 and 2017.
Mauer's batting average is nearly the same as Piazza's (.308 to .306) with Pudge at only .296. But both of them have far more home runs and better stats over a longer period of time. I think if Mauer gets in he's the MLB equivalent of Terrell Davis, the Broncos' briefly amazing RB - a dominating player with a short career (in terms of playing excellence, in Mauer's case).
I'm surprised to see such a diverse set of opinions elsewhere on Mauer, ranging from sure-fire HOFer to a "no-way, no-how" sort of reaction.
The question with Mauer is this – how do you view his career as a fielder? If you look at him primarily as a catcher, he is HOF for sure. But he was a first baseman for the last five years of his career and was more like Wally Joyner or Mark Grace during those years. On balance, yes, he’s a Hall of Famer. But it’s not as clear-cut as it could be. The one thing worth remembering is he’s hardly the only catcher who ended up playing a different position at the end of his career. People who aren’t baseball obsessives generally don’t realize Yogi Berra was the Yankees leftfielder in 1961.
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